It was a nice day, I was feeling relaxed, do I REALLY want to start a conversation? Inevitably I walked over and started a conversation. I asked them what they believe about the days of creation now. They used to believe that each day was 7000 years old. One JW had previously and recently told me they don't believe that but I pointed out they used to..... he was embarrassed.
These ones basically fluffed it and did the 'vague' on me, 'its a long time ' they said. I wasn't trying to trick them I was just trying to find out the current position. I explained I knew what the organisation had previously said. They acted as if there hadn't been a change of belief, they admitted nothing and tbh I could see in their eyes that they were obviously being a bit secretive about it all. A bit frustrated and disappointed I then properly introduced myself still not wanting to get into a debate, I was in a relaxed mood. I said I'm an evangelical Christian a born again person so obviously we differ on things but its been nice to talk. The youngest woman leapt in, 'so you believe the Trinity, we all used to be in other Churches we have now found the truth'. I couldn't let that one pass now could I!!
During the course of our 45 minute convo, they introduced a number of distractions.... joining the army, Christmas, the contradictory beliefs of Christians and others stuff. Any time I put the slightest bit of pressure on them they introduced one of these.
The opener on the Trinity was a gift. She said' how can you believe that three can be one person. We couldn't believe that so we now believe the Bible'. My reply was obvious and simple, 'you obviously never ever understood the biblical teaching on the subject or what Christians have believed since that time'.I pointed out that their claim of previously being Christians like me had no credibility. They obviously were nominal one a 'welsh chapel' background the other a Catholic.
I tried really hard to draw a distinction as I always do between the organisation and them. They vociferously said their faith is in Jehovah God and I'm sure I heard them say 'not the organisation'!! I asked them
1. Do you believe you will see the Kingdom (they said yes we will see its effects)
2. Are you born again as part of the 144,000 (they said no)
3. Show me John 3v3 'unless a person is born again they cannot see the Kingdom of God'. The organisation is contradicting Jesus....PLEASE I said believe Jesus.
My next approach was to point out that I can do something they cant do ...I can say to Jesus' my Lord and my God'......they cant, because the organisation wont let them. They had no reply unusually, apart from to say that he was not saying what was right!!!! Throughout the convo I was mentioning '4jehovah' look it up. They became more and more opposed to looking up anything after our time together. (4jehovah is a very usefull website). The conversation went on for 45 minutes. Eventually they tired as I challenged them to check things out, to re examine the claims of the WT. I began to list the failed prophesies, talked of the defection of Ray Franz. They jumped in to say that only a few JWs went beyond organisational teaching about 1975. I told them about the woman who promised me I would have my eyes pecked out in Armageddon before October also about the many others at that time (I was 18 that year). I looked the older ones in the eye and said 'you KNOW what happened', they averted their gaze.
We talked for a while about humanitarian and 'good works', they seemed to think that the JWs were the first to any crisis in the world ( I had to stifle my incredulous laughter at that point!) In Zambia where I go I said it has the highest number of JWs in the world, the country is packed full of orphanages, schools, clinics, children's villages built and supported by mainstream Christians and NONE by the Watchtower, after I made the point, they were silent.
What became apparent is that their faith was utterly in the organisation who the older one said 'had never got anything wrong'. If our message was wrong they said ...what is yours? (how often do you get a chance like that?). I explained and then said your hope is that you MAY survive Armageddon into Gods new world, mine is to know now I have eternal life with the sure and certain hope of resurrection. I don't think there is any comparison, one of them just shook her head, no reply ensued.
I reminded them of '4jehovah', they indicated they would not look it up. So I went to my appointment once again saddened by the grip that this pernicious organisation has on the minds of its adherents. Pray for them, I did present the gospel and drew the contrast between my faith in Jesus and theirs in the organisation (they did try and say my faith must be through an organisation). I can only hope my words are a link in a long chain or path to freedom. Did I waste my time? No, did I accomplish anything..only God knows at this time. I suppose I can put it on my report slip and hand it in to the service Overseer!!
Comments
The doctrine of irresistible grace, that was promoted by John Calvin, teaches that God's grace is applied only to those to whom He has determined to save, overcoming their resistance to obeying the call of the gospel, imputing them with faith in Christ so that they might become saved.
God's grace is available to all who hear the gospel.
Titus 2:11 For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men.
God's grace is available to all men, however, most men reject the salvation offered by God. Men have a choice, grace is not irresistible.
Matthew 7:13-14 "Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. 14 Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.
Men can and do resist the Holy Spirit.
Acts 7:51 "You stiff-necked and uncircumcised in heart and ears! You always resist the Holy Spirit; as your fathers did, so do you.
Men have a choice to accept or reject the gospel. Men do resist the Holy Spirit.
Luke 9:5 "And whoever will not receive you, when you go out of that city, shake off the very dust from your feet as a testimony against them."
Why would Jesus say whoever will not receive you, if grace was irresistible? Grace is resistible.
Luke 13:34 "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her brood under her wings, but you were not willing!
Jesus wanted to save all Jerusalem, however, they resisted that call. Men have free-will to accept or reject God's salvation.
Men have always and will always have a choice to obey or disobey God.
Joshua 24:15 "And if it seems evil to you to serve the Lord, choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods which your fathers served, that were on the other side of the River, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you dwell. But as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord.
Men still have have choice of whom they will serve. God does not force men into service.
Faith comes by hearing the gospel preached. Faith does not come because of irresistible grace.
Romans 10:17 So the faith comes by hearing , and hearing by the word of God.
Men accept the word of God by faith. Men are not imputed with faith by irresistible grace given by the Holy Spirit. Men have a choice.
1 Thessalonians 2:13 For this reason we also thank God without ceasing, because when you received the word of God which you heard from us, you welcome it not as the word of men, but as truth, the word of God, which also effectively works in you who believe.
GOD WANTS ALL MEN TO BE SAVED
1 Timothy 2:3-4...God our Savior, 4 who desires all men to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth.
If irresistible grace were true, then all men would be saved.
The truth is, all who hear the gospel can be saved, but not all men are obedient to the gospel plan of salvation.
GOD'S GRACE IS NOT IRRESISTIBLE!
(Scripture from: NKJV)
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